The military swearing an oath on the Constitution is no joke - I have a LOT of problems with the Constitution, putting it mildly. I certainly don't like how the constitution is revered, instead of viewed as a difficult compromise to keep the nation together in the face of potential future British reconquest, that has outstayed its welcome.
However, I take the military's oath to the Constitution seriously. In any potential civil conflict, we must take the constitutional high ground, no matter how tempting extralegal alternatives are. I'm concerned that a trump presidency could test leftists commitment to "pragmatic constitutionalism" - adherence to the Constitution not for ideological reasons, but for practical reasons, given that the constitution dictates where the military swings.
I'm very afraid about leftists trying to start a revolution too early, and losing
When norms have broken down so badly we have to say what is actually happening. No one from MAGA gives a hoot about Trump’s violence, but the rest of us deserve more.
Thanks for the though provoking article. It is always important to analyse and understand the legal and ethical position of the military within a democracy, especially, during a time of small professional armies.
It seems plain that the military swears an oath to uphold the constitution, not to serve the president, and so unlawful orders given can't be observed. No soldier can say a/he was just following orders, so to speak.
Milley saying Trump is fascist doesn't obviate the above, and I think he would say as much. The military can serve under a lawfully elected president who honors the law. Once the president stops honoring the oath of office, the obligations of an army serving the constitution deviate from the orders of the lawless president.
Isn’t this point literally why members of the armed forces swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution first? So it’s not breaking norms to act against civilian rule, if the civilian rule is bent on attacking the Constitution, no?
To a certain extent I suppose (but that's more directed at domestic attempts at insurrection than it is at civilian leadership itself subverting institutions). But generally in the realm of civ-mil relations that's not a framework that's used
Milley should have been relieved from his position when it became known that he interjected himself into the congressionally legislated chain of command and told the regional 4star commanders to check with him prior to executing any orders from the commander in chief (the duly elected president). Truman fired MacArthur for less . No Commander in Chief can execute his constitutional duties to lead the armed forces if a senior leader is actively undermining him. The Chairman is an advisor only. He has no command authority. While he did it to the unpopular Trump what stopped him from doing the same thing to Biden. Should he have undermined the incompetence of the Afghan withdrawal. Be careful what you wish for
I think Milley has sorted that one quite well with his statement that all US military swear on oath on the constitution
Yeah, I mean he's been about as clear as he can be in the least obfuscated manner possible
Moreover, whom they haven’t
The military swearing an oath on the Constitution is no joke - I have a LOT of problems with the Constitution, putting it mildly. I certainly don't like how the constitution is revered, instead of viewed as a difficult compromise to keep the nation together in the face of potential future British reconquest, that has outstayed its welcome.
However, I take the military's oath to the Constitution seriously. In any potential civil conflict, we must take the constitutional high ground, no matter how tempting extralegal alternatives are. I'm concerned that a trump presidency could test leftists commitment to "pragmatic constitutionalism" - adherence to the Constitution not for ideological reasons, but for practical reasons, given that the constitution dictates where the military swings.
I'm very afraid about leftists trying to start a revolution too early, and losing
When norms have broken down so badly we have to say what is actually happening. No one from MAGA gives a hoot about Trump’s violence, but the rest of us deserve more.
Thanks for the though provoking article. It is always important to analyse and understand the legal and ethical position of the military within a democracy, especially, during a time of small professional armies.
I am not looking past 11/05/2024-11/06/2024 until we are there. Holy crap it's going to get nerve wracking.
It seems plain that the military swears an oath to uphold the constitution, not to serve the president, and so unlawful orders given can't be observed. No soldier can say a/he was just following orders, so to speak.
Milley saying Trump is fascist doesn't obviate the above, and I think he would say as much. The military can serve under a lawfully elected president who honors the law. Once the president stops honoring the oath of office, the obligations of an army serving the constitution deviate from the orders of the lawless president.
Isn’t this point literally why members of the armed forces swear an oath to protect and defend the Constitution first? So it’s not breaking norms to act against civilian rule, if the civilian rule is bent on attacking the Constitution, no?
To a certain extent I suppose (but that's more directed at domestic attempts at insurrection than it is at civilian leadership itself subverting institutions). But generally in the realm of civ-mil relations that's not a framework that's used
Gosh, I’m really surprise at that. I thought it was fundamental!
Milley should have been relieved from his position when it became known that he interjected himself into the congressionally legislated chain of command and told the regional 4star commanders to check with him prior to executing any orders from the commander in chief (the duly elected president). Truman fired MacArthur for less . No Commander in Chief can execute his constitutional duties to lead the armed forces if a senior leader is actively undermining him. The Chairman is an advisor only. He has no command authority. While he did it to the unpopular Trump what stopped him from doing the same thing to Biden. Should he have undermined the incompetence of the Afghan withdrawal. Be careful what you wish for